Students Chat with Harley Shaiken

Internet Chats at the Institute of International Studies, University of California, Berkeley
Thurgood Marshall Academic High School Students Chat with Harley Shaiken, University of California Professor of Education, about Labor

On February 18, 1998, students from San Francisco's Thurgood Marshall Academic High School met for an internet chat with Professor Harley Shaiken of the School of Education at the University of California at Berkeley. Prior to the chat, Harry Kreisler and Beth Atkin developed an online curriculum on labor for use by the students, and conducted two workshops at the school. Following is a transcript of the chat.

Beth Atkin: Hi there! You can welcome Mr. Shaiken as he has just arrived.

Harley Shaiken: Hello students, how are you today?

Brian Simmons: Good morning Mr. Shaiken, this is Mr. Simmons. It is a pleasure to welcome you "virtually" to Thurgood Marshal High. The students are eagerly anticipating discussing issues of labor and work in the world today.

Shaiken: Let's have the first question.

Tim: Hello! How are you? We are doing a project on child labor. What countries have the most child labor and what is the U.S. doing about it?

Shaiken: Child labor is prevalent throughout many poor countries in the world. It would be hard to say which country has the biggest problem with child labor. Recently there have been many complaints about Bangladesh. The U.S. Congress is considering passing a law that would restrict the import into the U.S. of goods made with child labor.

Daniel: Hi, my name is Daniel. My group is doing a research project on sweatshops. We want to ask what is a sweatshop and what are the working conditions in a sweatshop?

Shaiken: Hi Daniel. A sweatshop is a work place where workers have few rights, work for very low wages, and often have very poor health and safety conditions. Recently we have seen an upsurge of sweatshops in industries such as garments in the United States.

Daniel: What garment company in the U.S.?

Shaiken: The companies tend to be very small and have names you probably have not heard of. However, they often produce goods for companies you surely have heard of. Some sweatshops in Chinatown in New York, for example, were producing clothing for Kathie Lee Gifford. Also, some groups have accused Guess? jeans of operating sweatshops in the Los Angeles area.

Tim: If the law is passed by Congress about bringing in goods, will the prices of goods like Nikes and Reeboks go higher?

Shaiken: Tim, it is possible that prices could go higher. More likely, however, because these are very competitive industries, the profits that companies make could go down a bit.

Tim: Do you know what percentage of the Nike's that I pay for goes to workers?

Shaiken: Let's take a pair of Nikes that cost $100. It probably takes one hour to assemble this pair of shoes. Since Nike workers in Vietnam earn about 35 cents per hour, very very little of what you pay for the shoe goes to the workers. Far more goes in profit, merchandising, celebrity endorsements, and transportation.

Tim: Oh my god! Only 35 cents an hour?

Shaiken: Yes, only 35 cents an hour.

Tim: Do you think this law will affect child labor?

Shaiken: Tim, the law affecting imports will affect some child labor but it could prove to be a difficult law to enforce.

Garen: Are these countries trying to do anything to restrict U.S. to establish such facilities in their countries?

Shaiken: Garen, many poor countries are so desperate for jobs that will take anything available in the way of factories. The problem then becomes that it is very easy to start a race to the bottom in terms of wages and working conditions.

Garen: What do you mean in terms of "race to the bottom"?

Shaiken: "Race to the bottom" means that if workers in Country A are willing to work for 35 cents an hour, workers in Country B may be willing to work for 30 cents an hour. A company might then offer 25 cents an hour as a condition for where it locates its plant.

Fernando: How long have you been studying labor issues?

Shaiken: Fernando, I have been studying labor issues since I was your age. After high school, I worked for about 12 years in automobile factories and other small shops as a machinist. I started studying labor toward the end of these working years.

Next page: Unions; More on Sweatshops and Child Labor; NAFTA