Thelton Henderson E-Mail Exchange: Connecting Students to the World; Institute of International Studies, UC Berkeley
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What did you think of the debate between Martin Luther King, Jr., and Malcolm X regarding philosophy for change? Whom did you agree with?
I think their differing philosophies complemented each other. Dr. King could not have been as successful as he was if Malcolm X had not been arguing so articulately that African Americans ought to defend themselves with guns if necessary against white racists. This made whites more disposed to embrace Dr. King's pacifism and philosophy of nonviolence. Because many African Americans didn't agree with nonviolence, this, in turn, gave Malcolm X a large audience for his views. I agreed with Dr. King's views, because I felt that African Americans would be slaughtered if they took up arms against the racist system of the day.
How did the death of Martin Luther King, Jr., make you feel?
I felt awful. I can still remember the moment I heard the news. I felt at that time that things would never be the same for African Americans or for the civil rights movement. I still feel today that my fears have been realized, in that, in my view, we have yet to have an African American leader to replace Dr. King and to effectively mobilize the civil rights movement.
What conflicts have you had as a judge?
Actually, my job as a judge is to resolve conflicts that are presented to me in the form of controversial lawsuits. On occasion, I have conflicts with attorneys who don't follow the rules, but I am able to resolve these kinds of conflicts quite easily with the strong "contempt" powers that Congress gives to federal judges. That means that if an attorney breaks the rules that are established for practicing in court, a judge can find that attorney in contempt and either put him in jail until he changes his behavior or fine him a certain amount of money as punishment for the improper behavior. These two powers are usually sufficient for me to control my court and get the proper behavior.
How has the civil rights movement affected the position you hold today?
The civil rights movement made it possible for me to hold the position I hold today. Before the civil rights movement, there had never been an African American federal judge in the history of this country. Last year I attended a conference in Chicago in which all the black federal judges in the country except Judge Clarence Thomas attended. There were more than forty judges present. This number is a result of the civil rights movement.
What would you say was the most prominent event, march, protest or act of the civil rights movement that greatly affected African Americans? Why?
I would say the arrest of Rosa Parks for refusing to sit in the back of a bus in Montgomery, Alabama. As a result of her arrest, African Americans in Montgomery organized and protested against the transportation system in Montgomery. It was during this protest that young Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., emerged as a civil rights leader. It was also a time when African Americans realized that they could successfully protest segregation laws.
Did you participate in any of the marches or protests?
Because I was a lawyer for the government, I could not directly participate in the marches or protests. However, I was present at most of the major marches and protests in the South and observed them for Attorney General Robert Kennedy. On two occasions, while I was standing near the protests, I was arrested because they thought I was a protester. I was released after I showed them my identification.
Which civil rights leader do you think had the greatest approach and effect on the movement and African Americans?
I think that would be Martin Luther King, Jr., although he did not operate in a vacuum. I think a significant part of his effectiveness was due to people like Malcolm X and Stokeley Carmichael who presented a more radical view and, in the process, made Dr. King's position more widely acceptable for white Americans.
What is one significant moment that you remember most about the civil rights movement?
I think the moment was during the funeral for Medgar Evers. Medgar Evers was a popular civil rights leader in Jackson, Mississippi, who was murdered by white supremacists. After the funeral, blacks organized a march from the black part of Jackson to the city hall. During the march they ran into a police blockade, and police ordered them to disperse. The blacks refused to disperse and proceeded to approach the police, at which time the police drew their guns and gave them a final order to break up. I was in the front row between the police and the marchers, and it appeared to me that the police were going to shoot into the crowd. Just at that moment, my boss, John Doar, stepped into the space between the two groups and pleaded for them to disperse. Because he was standing there the police lowered their guns and the crowd eventually dispersed. I believe that had John Doar not done what he did, many people would have been killed. There would have been a riot of epic proportions.
Did you face any discrimination during the civil rights movement?
I faced the same discrimination that all the African Americans in the South faced in those days. I could not stay at any hotel in southern cities. And I could not eat in any white restaurants in southern cities. Because there was only one black hotel in Alabama, if I did not stay in that hotel, I would have to stay at a military base near the town I was working in.
After you were fired from your job for assisting Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., did you join the fight for Civil Rights?
Dr. King offered me a job with the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, which was his organization. However, I decided to return to California to write a book about my experiences with Dr. King and the civil rights movement. Unfortunately, the book never got written, and I eventually began practicing law in Oakland, California. My practice was in civil rights. At the time I became a judge, I had my own office in San Francisco. We handled civil rights cases, including representing Native Americans who had been arrested in the battle of Wounded Knee, which was a civil rights protest by Native Americans in North Dakota. We also represented students who had been arrested at Kent State University for protesting the war in Vietnam.
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