Robert McNamara Interview: Conversations with History; Institute of International Studies, UC Berkeley
Page 5 of 8
When you came into the Kennedy administration from Ford, you were perceived as a manager of large organizations par excellence, and looking back at your career in 1967 you said "Management is the gate through which social and economic and political change, indeed change in every direction, is diffused though society." And you also said in 1962, "Running the Department of Defense is not different from running Ford Motor Company, or the Catholic Church, for that matter. Once you get to a certain scale, it's all the same."
Well, that was a simplification. There is much truth in it, but if you want to say running the Defense Department, which at times carries a
responsibility for putting the youth of this country at the risk of death, if you want to say that's not different from running Ford, of course it's different than Ford. But if you go beyond that and say running the Defense Department, including times when you put the youth of this country at risk, requires many of the same skills, attitudes, philosophical values, and approaches as does managing Ford or the Catholic Church, yes, there are very great similarities
and if you doubt that you should read the books on the Vatican Council. I'm not a Catholic, but I read them with tremendous
interest, because Pope John created a revolution in the Catholic Church and there are two volumes written anonymously describing how he brought the revolution, and it is exactly the organizational approach, if you will, 
that a person should take in bringing along a revolution in government or in business.
And what is the key ingredient?
The first point is to have an objective, and Pope John had an objective for the Catholic Church. Have an objective for the Ford Motor Company, have an objective for the government.
I went in to see President Kennedy one day -- I just loved and admired him -- and I said "Mr. President, I have a view of the office of the Presidency and the way in which it should be handled, and I would like to express it to you and have your comment." And he said, "Sure." I said, "I'll graph it for you. On the vertical axis is power and on the horizontal axis is time. You come into office at zero years, and you've got eight years ahead of you, hopefully. You have a certain amount of power at the beginning. I hope when you leave, you will have zero power, and I hope you will have expended the power in the interests of achieving the objectives that you feel our society should be moving toward." And he said, "Bob, that's exactly the way I look at it." Now the point of this story regarding your question is, you have to have an objective. What are you there for as President? If you don't have an objective, you can't expend your power to achieve the objective The President's job is to help lead the country, not as a dictator but as a persuader. To lead a democracy, you need a concept of values and objectives and you need then to put your concepts at risk in the forum of public debate, and have them debated and hopefully move the people to support them and move the society to them. Kennedy thought that way.
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