| Photo by Jane Scherr |
Charles Larson Interview: Conversations with History; Institute of International Studies, UC Berkeley
| Photo by Jane Scherr |
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You've walked us through your life to a certain extent. What prepared you for this kind of role?
You know, a lot of times when I talk to groups of young people, college students, midshipmen, I get the question, "Wasn't it awesome to have all that responsibility as CINCPAC?" And I said not really. I wasn't elected to CINCPAC; I came up one step at a time, and as I moved through the hierarchy I gained the experience in each and every job to prepare me for the next job. I can honestly say that I approached every job with a slight sense of apprehension: Am I really ready for this next step? And I think that's a healthy apprehension, because you don't get cocky or overconfident. You realize you need the inputs from all of your staff, you need to listen to people as you move forward. By the time you get there, you find out that you're ready and it's not that scary.
In fact, one of the most rewarding experiences I've had in my life is to make multiple trips to twenty-five countries in Asia and to learn and have first hand experience. When I read the newspapers now about some of the leaders over there, I've met most of them. When they gave Governor Bush the little pop quiz on the four leaders of the world I sat back and thought, "I've met three of them personally," and I met Lee Tenghui two weeks ago when I was in Taipei. So that kind of gave me a little feeling of how I'm very fortunate to have been there.
Do you have any regrets about what you did or didn't study? If you could magically go back -- more history as you went to all of these countries, more languages, or what?
Probably more history. But I've really watched; it would be interesting for me to take one of these interest inventory tests because I was so oriented on math, science, and engineering as a young person and I think my interests changed over the years more into history and political science and international relations. If I were to go into graduate school today I'd go into international relations. If I'd have gone twenty-five years ago I probably would have gone to electrical engineering. This type of thing I think is not unusual. If I had a chance to study more now I probably would delve into the history area.
Your career covers a period in which the relationship between society and the military in the United States has taken real ups and downs. In looking back, what do you think contributes most to a kind of mature, responsible relationship between the military and society and the government?
I think the military has to be part of society. We need to realize
that we are not isolated individuals, we are parts of our
communities.
We have children, we have normal lives, and that sort of
thing. I think one of the reasons that it's easier and we are better
integrated with society today is the fact that in the early days of
my career we almost always lived on a base, in housing, and our
entire social circle revolved around our base, our people, our
officer's club, our little swimming pool. And we did many, many
things together. In many cases even our schools were on the bases or
in close proximity. Today our young people in many, many locations,
particularly in the United States, are dispersed all over the
metropolitan area. Much of their life and their activities are
outside the military. There is school participation, there are PTAs,
there are soccer coaches, and some of them even are on school boards
and things like that. So our people have really gotten out there and
are integrated into society, and I think this is a very healthy
thing. And by the way, they are also professional military officers
when they don their uniform and deploy and go to work and do the
things that they do.
The most searing experience that affected this relationship was obviously the Vietnam War. What lessons do you think we should rightly learn from that experience that would help us as we deal with all sorts of new turmoil in the world?
I think the basic thing is that the commander in chief must be totally honest with the American people about what he or she is doing, and that we cannot commit our blood and treasure, our young people, to combat without the support of the Congress and the American people. We have to have the country behind us wherever we go. We were in the terrible situation of our military being committed in combat with a large portion of our country not behind them. As a result, many people took the animosity out on the military rather than on the political leaders that were ordering it. The military was just doing the job that they were asked to do. During that very, very difficult time I was the executive officer of a nuclear submarine, and I remember how difficult it was with conscientious objectors and people like that trying to get our forces together to carry out our deployments. I had two daughters who were in school who would not admit their father was in the military. I had one daughter who told her friends that I was an artist because she felt that was more acceptable. And if you had ever seen me draw or attempt to draw you would realize that is the worst exaggeration anybody could ever make! But she was afraid to tell her friends that her father was in the military.
So one key question, if not in Asia then in other parts of the world, we're going to have to think about different kinds of intervention, humanitarian intervention and so forth.
That's right.
What are your thoughts about that in terms of needing to win the support but also the need that we have to realize our ideals, our humanitarian values in a very turbulent world?
I think our forces should be committed based on both our vital interests and our values. And sometimes our values are going to override, to the point that it may not be an absolute vital interest, but the value component is so strong that we should intervene and the American people will agree that we should intervene. That's a careful judgment that the commander in chief must make, but the commander in chief must consult with the Congress to make sure that the Congress and the American people are behind that. And we have to have open, honest communication so that we can work together. We need to have the executive and the legislative branches work together in a bipartisan sense in foreign policy and defense matters. That's not been the case recently; we need to regain that so that we can work together as a country and not use this dimension of our life as a means of beating up on one political party or the other. We've got to come together and we've got to do the right things to support our interests and our values and have the whole country agree with what we're doing.
What would be your advice to students if they look at this tape or read the text on the world wide web? What lessons should they learn from your very distinguished military career?
The first thing I would say is try and take a certain amount of your time -- and I know you're young and you're busy and you're studying, it's hard to find a little time -- but take a little time each week to stay informed on the issues out there before you. Local issues that affect your life and also the international and national issues. And vote, participate! I couldn't vote until I was 21 but when I turned 21 I went down and registered and I have voted in every single primary and general election since I was 21 years old. I have never missed a one. I just voted in the latest presidential primary on Tuesday. I voted by absentee ballot before I left Maryland because I knew I was going to be out here in Berkeley. Vote, and cast a well-informed vote. And I'll tell you the same thing that I told my children, my three grown daughters: I don't care how you vote or which side you vote for as long as your vote is a well-informed vote and you've done the best you can to understand the issues. I think that's a real key to a democracy in America is to have people out there participating and understanding what that vote means and what they are doing. I agonize over my vote many times. People say it's just one vote; it's my vote and it's important!
What advice would you have for a student who wants to go into the military about what a future soldier or even a competent citizen needs to learn while in school?
Still in high school?
Or in college. Let's say high school and college.
I think in preparation in high school you need to make sure you take the good foundation of core courses in math, science, English, history; the things that will allow you to qualify not only for a service academy but for one of the best universities. And then once you're there, take a good round of courses. We're very proud at the Naval Academy of our core curriculum because it's a wonderful combination of math, science, engineering, history, political science, English. It's a very strong base. If you're an English major at the naval academy, you graduate with a Bachelor of Science in English because you have a strong technical core. So I would say to a you, "Young student, you need to take those types of courses that will prepare you to have a broad-gauged thinking to learn how to continue your learning after you graduate, and to have a sense of both community service and a desire to go out there and be part of your community, part of your world, so you make contributions outside of your profession, so you're a broader gauged person."
Is there one moment or event in your career where it all came together and you were most proud of what you did and had the opportunity to do it?
When I was commanding officer of a nuclear submarine and we had the opportunity to do some one-of-a-kind, first-of-a-kind, very sensitive operations that turned out to be of great, great value to our national security. There were difficult, dangerous operations and the pride that I got from seeing my crew come together as a team and do this and come back home, realizing what we'd accomplished, was one of the great sources of joy for me, to see that team and what they did. And I'll never forget that experience.
Admiral Larson, thank you very much for taking the time to be with us today and telling us your story and all that you learned. Thank you very much.
You're very welcome, Harry. Back in 1969 when I was President Nixon's naval aide, I didn't think I'd be at Berkeley some day as a retired four-star admiral talking about some of these security issues. But I've had a wonderful week here and my reception with the faculty, the students and all of the people here has been exceptional, and I certainly look forward to a return visit. Thank you very much for having me.
I'm glad you were able to come without the black bag.
Me too.
Thank you. And thank you very much for joining us for this Conversation with History.
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