| Photo by Jane Scherr |
Brenda Hollis Interview: Conversations with History; Institute of International Studies, UC Berkeley
| Photo by Jane Scherr |
Page 3 of 8
Before we talk about the most recent phase of your career at the end of the Cold War and your involvement in human rights issues, I'm curious about what obstacles you encountered as a woman in the military, as an intelligence officer, and in the Judge Advocates Corps. You must have been within the first wave of women, as the military was trying to establish equality.
Well, perhaps there had been ripples before, and maybe it was the first that you could actually call a wave, as compared to a ripple on the surface. A lot of women had done a lot to pave the way before I came in. As an intelligence officer, I came into the military as a Second Lieutenant, and everybody picks on Second Lieutenants, it doesn't matter if you're male or female. A lot of the issues I faced were simply being the most junior officer that exists in the military system. But I think, also, that in those times, many of those senior officers -- not all, but many -- still tended to not give enough credence to women's opinions, women's views; didn't really view them as suitable officer material. Certainly not all officers, though. I was fortunate that I didn't deal with any of the people who were really hard-core misogynists. There were people in the military like that. Unfortunately, today, I think there still are a few, but a very few. Then when I went into the Judge Advocates Corps, especially in the Air Force, they were very open to women and had a very good program for women. And so, again, I think I was fortunate in the service that I went into.
What is the reason, do you think, for this openness? Was it because it was focused on law? Or was it the particular leadership of the Judge Advocates Corps?
I think it was probably a combination. Certainly, the fact that it was focused on law made it easier. If I had wanted to go into combat arms or to be a fighter pilot, the door would have been closed. In fact, if I had wanted to go to the Air Force Academy, even though my taxes helped pay for it, the door would have been closed. So part of it was going in to the Judge Advocates Corps, but part of it was the leadership in the Judge Advocates Corps as well.
To what extent was the background that you described -- the importance of your mother and her strong character, and you had a sister in the military -- also helpful in easing your navigation through this process of being in the first or second groups of women who were becoming active partners in military work? It sounds to me like the example of your mother would have been important, and that of your sister.
I think it was. I think it was important in the sense that any human being acts differently, depending upon the kind of center that they have within them. If you have a center that says you have strengths and abilities and should be allowed to develop those, then I think it's easier to move into situations that are non-traditional areas, because you, yourself, feel that you have a right to be there, you have a right to make a contribution. Certainly, being an officer in the military to me was a privilege and an opportunity to make a contribution to my country. I think the organizations or entities that can extend those privileges need to do it in a way that's fair and that allows all of us who are qualified to take on that right of privilege, if you will. So I felt I had a right to be there. I certainly felt it wasn't something where I could just go in and say, "I'm a woman, I can get what I want." But I had a right to try to develop my skills and be the best person that I could be.
Did you ever think back on To Kill a Mockingbird and the fact that Scout had sat as a bystander in the courtroom, but by God, you were going to take on the role?
You know, I never really did. But I think my sense of outrage at the injustice of those totally artificial limitations on people certainly was part of what made me feel that I wanted to do this, and I should be allowed to do this if I was otherwise qualified.
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