Jack Citrin Interview: Conversations with History; Institute of International Studies, UC Berkeley
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Talking a little about foreign policy, what is your perspective on the notion that we have a model that can be applied to the rest of the world? What are the elements of truth in that idea, and what's wrong with it?
Well, one cannot simply export institutions of government, or even a whole complex of cultural values in the way you can export a Ford or a Honda. I think that's absurd. But I do think that there are macro-historical processes that derive from economic change, that derive from cultural interaction, where certain impulses -- the impulse for self-realization, the impulse for some kind of control over your own destiny, the impulse to be able to speak out -- are not universal human qualities, but that do manifest themselves around the world in various contexts. I think that the way in which these particular impulses interacts with other kinds of cultural habits and expectations, traditions, and institutions will vary very much. Certainly, within the advanced industrial West there are certain kinds of convergences, not necessarily in institutions but in norms of conduct, in political norms, say with respect to gender equality now; but to think you can go to a patriarchal society and automatically say, "this is the way it has to be" and not expect resistance is very naïve. I think that in foreign policy there's always the balance between alliances of strategic necessity and your moral judgment of those allies, and enemies [too], for that matter.
You've now assumed a new role of Director of the Institute of Governmental Studies. Tell us abut your hope for the future of that institution.
The Institute of Governmental Studies, IGS, is actually a old research unit on campus. I found out that it's 88 years old. It got its beginning in the twenties as a kind of school of public administration, as sort of a good-government operation, and its first leaders were political scientists who were in public administration or [had] an interest in state and local government, and who interacted quite a lot with public officials. It since has evolved into a unit that has clusters of researchers, some of whom continue to work on issues of that nature and to interact with Sacramento, and that's something that I think is important. Going back to your question of why be a political scientist, here's an opportunity to communicate on a policy-relevant dimension. It's also important, I think, for the campus, a public institution, public university, to have positive relations with people in government.
But we have a number of research clusters, a couple of which reflect my own interests but which are led by faculty from different disciplines on campus. One of those focuses on race, ethnicity, and immigration, another is on comparative institutions of governance, and a third which we're just launching this year is going to be called the Center for the Study of Representation. Representation, again, is something you talked about: I have a of personal interest in being represented, or [the question of] how one gets represented, but I think representation is sort of an umbrella term that allows us to look at not just political representation but access to education, economic inequality, various kinds of ways in which politics and policy distributes benefits to a pretty diverse citizenry.
One final question. If students were to watch this program and they look back at your career, what would you advise them with regard to preparing for the challenges of nationalism versus cosmopolitanism as they deal with the world in the future? Any particular rules of thumb that have come to you after this experience we've just talked about?
What I would have them think about is what is the value of a tempered nationalism. We can talk in idealistic terms about a world community and a world government, but in reality the institutions that you can influence in a democratic way that have the most impact on your life, at this point, are national institutions, and you're a citizen of a nation. That doesn't mean "my country, right or wrong" obviously, but the value of nationhood to me is linked to the value of citizenship. That is how I would think about it. What is the meaning of a citizenship? Who is a citizen? Who should be a citizen? If you eschew, even as an immigrant, as I did, for about ten years or so, or maybe less -- when I could've been a citizen I eschewed that choice. I had no ability to influence even my local government, even the school board, so when it came time for my kid to go to school, I was pretty unhappy with the school system, but I had not been a player.
Well, on that note, Jack, I want to thank you for joining us today. Good luck in your new role as Director of the Institute of Governmental Studies.
Harry, thank you, and I know we're going to work together in that new role.
Good. And thank you very much for joining us for this Conversation with History.
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